WILL ALL THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN

WILL ALL THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN?

 

Many people believe all righteous people who have faith in Jesus as well as those servants of God before Jesus came on earth as man will go to heaven. They believe that all God’s servants of before in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as those Christians who died and the remaining Christians on earth until judgment come will go to heaven to live there eternally. Is this really the teaching of God’s word? If we will go back with the original aim of Jehovah God to Adam and Eve as well as to their offspring, God originally aimed to let the mankind live on earth as stated in Genesis 1:28 and that he didn’t want them to die as stated in Genesis 2:16 and Genesis 3:3. So God’s original plan to mankind is to let them live on earth forever because he doesn’t want them to die but to multiply on earth and to have dominions on earth. However, an angel from heaven who became Satan – the Devil eventually had lied to Eve that they will not die if they will eat the forbidden fruit but become like God who can know the good and bad (Genesis 3:4, 5). That is why the sin came to all mankind and that it caused death to all the offspring of Adam and Eve because Adam had sinned (Romans 5:12) as well as Eve. Now, is the will of God broken and will not ever be done? If we are going to read Isaiah 55:11, God assured us that his words will not come back to him without result but rather he will do his will as he pleases it to happen. Now, what is the proof that God’s will on mankind is to let them live forever on earth? We shall begin with God’s promise of eternal life on earth to his promise to Jacob and you can read it in Genesis 48:3, 4. In these verses, Jehovah God promised to Jacob that his descendants will possess the land that God will give to them for indefinite time (NWT; while it is “forever” in other translations). It is true that there are words in Hebrew Scriptures especially when talking to Mosaic Law, there are laws commanded by God to do by the Israelites for indefinite time while other translation it is “forever”. However, it was not done continually and so it is not forever. The original word for these terms have a meaning of “perpetual”, “forever”, “eternal” and “indefinite time”. However, God’s words on these commandments to Israel using Mosaic Law are said “not to be broken”. His words are not broken. Again these commandments are only replace by personal offerings of God’s people through prayers, contributions and preaching of the word of God and that the forgiveness of sins is through the blood of Jesus. The Law was ended through Jesus Christ death (Romans 10:4; Colossians 2:13, 14). Therefore, the word of God was not broken. Still it is doing continuously but through new ways of pleasing God under a new covenant through Jesus. How must we view the words “indefinite time” as translated in NWT in the said verses? This promise of God to Jacob is in relation to God’s will on earth to let it continue to exist as stated in Ecclesiastes 1:4 (again in NWT it is indefinite time) however, in Psalms 104:5 it is not only indefinite time but it is also forever. (Please see the corresponding Hebrew interlinear for these verses and the NWT). It says the earth will never be moved and it will exist forever. Another example of the word “forever” in NWT can be found in 2 Samuel 7:16 (which has a greater fulfillment to Jesus) in which David is said to have rulership forever.  So, if all the righteous people will go to heaven to live there, for what purpose is the earth that it will continue to exist forever? The Bible answers that the earth was made as a dwelling place and that it was created by God with purpose (Isaiah 45:18). In fact, the earth was given by God to mankind (Psalms 115:16). Now, what is the proof that the earth was given by God to mankind? Psalms 37:9, 11, 29 clearly states that righteous and meek people will live on earth forever (see the Hebrew Interlinear). How about some people’s teaching of a new literal earth or a paradise which is on heaven (which may compose of literal land)? Again, the word of God clearly states that the righteous will dwell on earth and that those without sins or imperfectness will “remain” on earth while those wicked will be “rooted” out of it (see Proverbs 2:21, 22).  It is also in conformity with Isaiah 25:8 that God will destroy death (to be fulfilled) forever and wipe away all tears of men and take away the disgrace of his nation in the whole earth. Notice the words use God will “take away” the disgrace on earth. Why? It is because righteous people will be left on earth. This in conformity with Psalms 72:8 which is a fulfilled prophecy to Jesus and will happen on the coming new earth and the prayer of Jesus known as the “Lord’s Prayer” commonly known as “Our Father” in Matthew 6:9, 10 is really the will of God which can be seen in Psalms 72:19, 20. Remember it was not said “new earth” thus David believe that this earth is still the earth that righteous people will dwell in. The “new earth” definitely means a renewed system on earth. Actually, David did not ascend into heaven as stated in Acts 2:34 but his hope is to live on earth as stated in Ezekiel 37:24, 25. This is in conformity with Joel 3:20 which states Judah and Jerusalem will be inhabited forever. However, some translations states Judah and Jerusalem will dwell forever. As we can see these are literal places that spoken about in chapter 3 therefore it must conclude that these places will be literally inhabited by its people forever. Another proof that the early God’s people did not go to heaven is in John 3:13. What are other proofs that the earth is meant to be a dwelling place of the righteous people? Jesus mentioned that the meek will inherit the earth (Matthew 5:5; see the Greek- English Interlinear) that is why those who ruin the earth will be destroyed because the earth will still have purpose for the mankind as their dwelling place (Revelation 11:18). Are there people who will go to heaven? There are. In 1 Corinthians 15:35, Paul said one may ask on how will the dead be raised and to what body will they come again? He gave an answer in 1 Corinthians 15:38-40 which he stated that there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies that will be given to mankind according to God’s will. Therefore, there are two kinds of bodies that people will acquire in resurrection – one is heavenly body and one is earthly body. Of course heavenly bodies are spiritual bodies (who would live on heaven) and earthly bodies are physical bodies (i.e. with blood and flesh who would live on earth). So who would go to heaven? The Scriptures states that through Jesus, he bought people for God from earth to bring to heaven as stated in Psalms 68:18 which has a cross reference to Ephesians 4:8 – 10. Therefore, it is through Jesus that righteous people bought from earth will be taken to heaven. How it is possible to enter in the Kingdom of God in heaven? John 3:3 – 5 states that one must be born in Spirit and in water before one can enter to heaven. Who are those born in spirit? John 1:12 – 13 states they are born not from the blood or from the will of man but from the will of God. Therefore it is not through human will that they can enter to God’s kingdom in heaven but only through God’s will. This is in relation to Romans 9:11, 16 that those chosen is not chosen based on the works of the person, not on the one who wants and not on the one who runs but of the one who calls who is Jehovah. Therefore it is not ourselves who will decide if we will live on heaven. How ever far we have worked as righteous persons, the heavenly hope depends on the one who calls (compare Romans 8:28). Who are the ones call by God and what is God’s purpose for them? As the Scriptures states, those who will be on heaven must be born from Spirit and from the water i.e. born from the will of God as called by God through his spirit and born through baptism. Are the early people of God before Jesus came on earth as man not included to go to heaven? Yes, they are not included. As you can see in the previous verses I have quoted above the hope of the early God’s people is to live on earth. Actually, there is no single scripture in the Hebrew Scriptures that early God’s people will go to heaven. Again, John 1:13 states that no one went to heaven except to the one who came from heaven who is Jesus. If by that time Abraham, Noah, Jacob, Isaac, David and other people of God is not in heaven by that time then when will they be resurrected? John 5:28, 29 states that through Jesus there will be resurrection of the dead. When will the resurrection be happened? 1 Corinthians 15:23 states resurrection will happen on the presence of Jesus. When is the presence of Jesus? Some believe it is on Armageddon when God will give his judgment to all nations through the second coming of Jesus. However, Revelation 6:9 – 10 clearly states there are resurrected people in heaven before the world ends and are waiting for God’s judgment to come for the vengeance of their blood. Verse 11 states that they have to wait for a few more time until their complete number (the 144,000) be fulfilled. This resurrection refers to the ones mention in Revelation 20:4 – 6. They are the first resurrected ones who will become kings and priests of God together with Jesus in heaven. They are numbered as 144,000 (Revelation 7:4 – 8). Are these literal Jews who came from Israel? No. Revelation 14: 1 – 5 states they were bought from earth and “bought from humanity” (v. 3, 4) or “bought from all tribes, languages and nations” to become priests of God and kings over the earth (see Revelation 5:9, 10). Are these literal virgins? No. Peter is one of the apostles of Jesus Christ who will live on heaven yet he has a wife (1 Corinthians 9:5; Matthew 8:14; John 1:42). Is this the church of God which is composed of Christians? No. Since these 144, 000 will become kings over the earth. To whom they will rule if all Christians are kings in heaven? Why would the 144,000 become kings over the earth? 1 Corinthians 6:2 and Revelation 20:4, 6 state they will have to judge the earth for 1000 years in the millennial reign of Jesus. People who gets out of the great tribulation and those who will be resurrected to have chance to live on earth will have to prove themselves that they are deserving of eternal life only if they can pass on the final test after 1000 years of reigning of Jesus (Revelation 20:7, 8) However, those resurrected ones and have came out of the great tribulation who will disobey the will of God including his new commandments will be destroyed eventually even the 1000 years is not yet finished (Isaiah 65:20). Please check all the biblical verses I have written and as much as possible look for the corresponding interlinear of those verses.

The truth shall set us free. (John 8:32)

You can check the Interlinear of the Bible verses and the NWT translations in the links below.

http://www.interlinearbible.org/

http://jw.org/

Please see the link below which is a related article for the subject above.

https://fromthesunrising.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/heaven-and-earth-will-pass-away-what-does-it-implies-reedited/

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49 responses to this post.

  1. […] WILL GO TO HEAVEN « JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES – TRUE WITNESSES OF GOD WILL ALL THE RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE GO TO HEAVEN […]

  2. Posted by Ed Bromfield on May 30, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Sunrising, greetings. Thank you for your invitation to read your new blog post. I enjoyed our discussion on my blog, and now I have a little time to do a little more. I agree with some of what you say here, especially about our inheriting the earth as opposed to going to heaven, but there are a few things I would take issue with.

    To begin, let me ask a few questions. Near the beginning of your post you mentioned the phrase: “the original aim of Jehovah God”. Is it possible for God to fail? If not, is he still working out his original aim?

    Another question—can you prove through Scripture that God made an angel who became Satan?

    Thirdly, near the middle of your post you mentioned two things—first, “God will destroy death forever” and then a little later: “those who ruin the earth will be destroyed.” In what way can we assume those who destroy the earth will be destroyed? The same Greek word is used for those who destroy as those who are destroyed. If the earth is not really destroyed by them (for as you conclude the earth lasts forever), how can we say that these people who “destroy” the earth will be completely annihilated? Moreover, if God destroys “death”, how is death destroyed if death reigns over anyone—those who have done wickedly or those who have done righteously?

    Finally, you mentioned that those who have “heavenly bodies” will dwell in heaven. How do you conclude this, since there are no verses in the word of God that say anyone—man, woman or child—will go to heaven? The implication in the Scriptures is that God comes to mankind and dwells with us (see Revelation 21:22-23). However he intends to do this is not clearly said, but the implication seems to be that the heavenly presence of God makes the earth glow with his glory, so that we have no need of any other light. But, what do you say of these things?

  3. That is the problem with some people in understanding the Holy Scriptures. What is plain they give deeper interpretations and what needs to be interpreted in deeper sense they give literal interpretations. It is true that there are people as described in the Bible who don’t know the difference of their left and right hand – Jonah 4:11. Is it literal or methaporical? You decide.

  4. Posted by Ed Bromfield on May 31, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Greetings Sunrising,

    I apologize if I wasn’t clear. I made no real statements above except to ask or elaborate on four questions (the third being a two-part question). You have chosen not to answer any of those questions. Instead, you speak of giving deeper interpretations, while some offer literal interpretations of the Scriptures. I made no reference to either way of seeing God’s word. I merely asked four questions. If you don’t answer, I’ll leave you alone. I don’t wish to put your faith down or to embarrass you. I thought you wished that I come here to discuss these things with you. Why would you invite me, if that were not true? So, please look at my previous comment once more. If you don’t wish to discuss, that’s fine. You may even delete my comments. Anyway, this will be the last you hear from me on your blog, if my questions remain unanswered.

    Have a great day and God bless,

    Eddie

  5. Please read the entire verses I have quoted in my article. You can see all of them. John 8:44 proves that Satan is an angel before you can see in the whole context.

  6. Those who destroy means making the earth unclean. Those who make it as a mess living place. Those who makes the earth polluted and not good to dwell in will be destroyed. See for the biblical verses of it. The end of wicked is death – the word which is also stands for destroyed. See my article concerning soul and hell.

  7. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 1, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Please read the entire verses I have quoted in my article. You can see all of them. John 8:44 proves that Satan is an angel before you can see in the whole context.

    John 8:44 KJV Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    The word ‘angel’ isn’t mentioned in this verse at all. How can this verse be used to show Satan is an angel?

  8. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 1, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Those who destroy means making the earth unclean. Those who make it as a mess living place. Those who makes the earth polluted and not good to dwell in will be destroyed. See for the biblical verses of it. The end of wicked is death – the word which is also stands for destroyed. See my article concerning soul and hell.

    Yet, the Greek word does not mean ‘destruction’ in the sense that ‘existence’ itself is in question. If this is true for the earth, how can you conclude it mean annihilation for the wicked? Also, if 1Corinthians 15 shows that death itself is destroyed, how can you conclude ‘death’ reigns over anyone after Jesus turns the Kingdom over to the Father?

  9. Look the NWT translation for John 8:44. The question is why would God create a bad angel and for what purpose? Is it to transgress against his will? His will is clear to let the people live on earth and not to die but this angel who made himself Satan and Devil want to have sovereignty with the people and so his desire made him to decide to lie with Adam and Eve. You see that there are angels in heaven who married with women on earth and have offspring called Nefilim. See it is because of their lust or their desire. Satan is the original transgressor or the original serpent. Demons have followed with Satan and therefore Satan and his demons were cast out of heaven – their dwelling place before but they have no place in heaven now. They are on earth to misled many people in the world through false teachings and spiritism.

  10. Death would be destroyed after the 1000 years reigning of Jesus. It means there would be no death anymore. The final death would be the destruction of those who will disobey God’s will and would not have faith on truth and that would happen after 1000 years when Satan and his demons will freed again for the final test of the people in the world. Then eventually, Satan and his demons and all those oppossers to God’s will and will not continue to stand with the truth will be destroyed. As of now death reigns over anyone but when the time has come God will destroy death. All of those who will survive of course know how to follow God’s will and so they will receive the gift of eternal life on earth.

  11. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Look the NWT translation for John 8:44. The question is why would God create a bad angel and for what purpose? Is it to transgress against his will? His will is clear to let the people live on earth and not to die but this angel who made himself Satan and Devil want to have sovereignty with the people and so his desire made him to decide to lie with Adam and Eve.

    Alright, let’s look at the NWT:

    John 8:44 NWT YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie].

    Where do you see that Satan is an angel here? I know many men teach that Satan is an angel or an archangel, but nowhere in the Bible do we see the word of God teaching Satan is an angel. As far as I am concerned, this is one of the traditions of men, designed to put fear into the hearts of God’s people. We are not supposed to fear.

    You see that there are angels in heaven who married with women on earth and have offspring called Nefilim. See it is because of their lust or their desire. Satan is the original transgressor or the original serpent. Demons have followed with Satan and therefore Satan and his demons were cast out of heaven – their dwelling place before but they have no place in heaven now. They are on earth to misled many people in the world through false teachings and spiritism.

    Jesus told the Sadducees that in the resurrection, men do not marry, for they are like the angels (Matthew 22:30), implying that neither do angels marry. It is the tradition of men that angels came down from heaven and married women. The Bible doesn’t teach such a thing. In fact, the Bible implies it is impossible for different species to cross-bread and produce life that would also produce life after its kind. Genesis 1 teaches that kind produces kind. The story of the Nefilim, as told to us today, is a story born in the hearts of men.

    Romans 5 claims that Adam, not an evil spirit being, is the original transgressor! You have no Biblical proof that demons are evil angels who followed Satan. As far as misleading people is concerned, Jesus says that evil thoughts do not come from seducing spirits but from the heart (Matthew 15:19). Because the wicked refuse to honor God, God gives them up to a reprobate mind (Romans 1:28). It is sin, itself, and the flesh that act as evil forces. They are not external to us but express our inner, sinful self.

  12. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 2, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Death would be destroyed after the 1000 years reigning of Jesus. It means there would be no death anymore. The final death would be the destruction of those who will disobey God’s will and would not have faith on truth and that would happen after 1000 years when Satan and his demons will freed again for the final test of the people in the world. Then eventually, Satan and his demons and all those oppossers to God’s will and will not continue to stand with the truth will be destroyed. As of now death reigns over anyone but when the time has come God will destroy death. All of those who will survive of course know how to follow God’s will and so they will receive the gift of eternal life on earth.

    How can ‘death’ be destroyed if it reigns over the wicked? It seems to me that ‘death’ is destroyed only if everyone is alive. There was no death in Eden before Adam and Eve rebelled. Death entered through Adam according to Romans 5. The destruction of ‘death’ implies that even the wicked will repent at some time. Only then will every evil work or power be put down (1Corinthians 15:24-25, 28), and only then could it be said that **all** are in submission to God. It seems to me, if God is able to rule only a few, his original plan failed. I don’t believe God is able to fail. This doctrine of men that the wicked will be eternally punished implies failure on God’s part, in that he is unable to rule the hearts of the wicked.

    For matters concerning Satan and demons, see my previous comment.

  13. You know that through Satan death comes to mankind. Satan is the cause death. That is why when Satan will be destroyed the death would also be destroyed. You see that in the final test of mankind Satan is very eager to influence many people to misled them and to bring them into destruction. That is why death will be destroyed after Satan will be destroyed. There would be no death at all. All of those who will survive knows God and his will and they will follow all the commandments of God for it would be written on their hearts.

  14. In NWT it says, Satan did not stand fast in the truth and since God did not create anything which is bad it is therefore to conclude that Satan was a good angel before who stand in the truth first but did not continue to stand in the truth and eventually he made himself Satan and Devil as well when he deceived Adam and Eve and had a desire to govern the mankind. He was against the sovereignty of God thus he make a move to let have sovereignty over the people of the earth starting from Adam and Eve and that is what happening now in the world.

    As for the angels who marry women on earth you can scan Genesis as to how Nefilim brought out in the earth. Chapter 5 or 6 if I am not mistaken. This angels who became demons were put into tartarus in which they cannot transform anymore into flesh or human and are waiting for their judgment to come.

  15. Ed Bromfield,

    In KJV translation of John 8:44 it says does “not abode” and abode is a past tense of “abide” which means “to remain” that is why Satan did not remain in the truth since he was an angel before who is in truth. As I have said you must read Genesis as to those who were angels before whom transformed into human being and marry women and have produced called Nefilim and these angels who transformed into human transformed again to being angels and went back to heavens to save their lives from deluge of water during Noah’s time. I am sorry I won’t post your comments anymore. You keep ignoring the fact that there were angels before who later became demons and come with Satan who were kept in tartarus to wait for the judgment to them.

  16. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 6, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    Sunrising, greetings. I had posted to two of your last three replies above just before I went to bed last night. I don’t know what happened to them, but my replies are not here today, so I’ll reply once more.

    You know that through Satan death comes to mankind. Satan is the cause death. That is why when Satan will be destroyed the death would also be destroyed. You see that in the final test of mankind Satan is very eager to influence many people to misled them and to bring them into destruction. That is why death will be destroyed after Satan will be destroyed. There would be no death at all. All of those who will survive knows God and his will and they will follow all the commandments of God for it would be written on their hearts.

    Romans 5:12 NWT That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned-.

    As you can see the NWT says that sin entered the world through one man, and the context shows that this man is Adam. In other words, it was not a spirit being that sinned first, but a human being, and death entered our world through his sin. Paul mentions nothing of an evil spirit being called Satan in Romans 5. Therefore, according to the text, we must assume Adam was the first to sin, and his sin brought death into the world.

    Your claim above implies there will be no **further** death after the judgment, but would this mean that death is destroyed? The Scriptures show that death is a prison that holds sinners who have died. If death is still holding sinners after the judgment, wouldn’t this mean that ‘death’ still exists? On the other hand, if everyone was made alive and no one was dead, wouldn’t “death” be destroyed in that it no longer reigns over a single soul? If no one is dead (cp. Adam and Eve before the fall), then death doesn’t exist—correct? Similarly, when Jesus returns the Kingdom to the Father (1Corinthians 15:26, 28), he has beforehand brought death to nothing, according to the NWT). Therefore, the end of the matter is as the beginning of the matter—namely, no one is dead! Nevertheless, according to what you have written above, the punishment of the many (or perhaps few?) is eternal death! How isn’t this a rejection of what Paul claims in 1Corinthians 15:26-28?

  17. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 6, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    I also replied to this comment of yours last night, but it is no longer here this morning.

    In NWT it says, Satan did not stand fast in the truth and since God did not create anything which is bad it is therefore to conclude that Satan was a good angel before who stand in the truth first but did not continue to stand in the truth and eventually he made himself Satan and Devil as well when he deceived Adam and Eve and had a desire to govern the mankind. He was against the sovereignty of God thus he make a move to let have sovereignty over the people of the earth starting from Adam and Eve and that is what happening now in the world.

    We agree that God did not create anything that was evil. So how did evil come into existence? You claim a spirit being called **Satan** “did not stand fast in the truth.” Fine! But can you show this in the Scriptures? Where does it say that an ‘angel’ or whatever changed into an evil being and rebelled against God? I have shown that sin entered the world through one man (Romans 5). How do you support your claim? Can you show that this being is a spirit being (an angel) who deceived Adam? The Scriptures conclude that Adam was not deceived. He knew very well what he was doing. Are you able to show in the Bible where this spirit being took away Adam’s authority? God gave Adam his authority, and the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. God doesn’t change his mind. How did Satan take away what God had given Adam?

    As for the angels who marry women on earth you can scan Genesis as to how Nefilim brought out in the earth. Chapter 5 or 6 if I am not mistaken. This angels who became demons were put into tartarus in which they cannot transform anymore into flesh or human and are waiting for their judgment to come.

    According to Jesus’ statement to the Sadducees, angels never marry. Do you have Biblical proof that shows otherwise, and that Jesus didn’t really mean his statement to be taken literally? How is it possible, then, that the Neflim could come through a union of women and spirit beings? Genesis 1 says “kind” is produced after “kind”. Wouldn’t the proposition that spirit beings marrying human women and producing young be against what the Scriptures conclude. I know that evolutionists believe species had to have been able to produce different species in order for their conclusions to be accurate, but I think Jehovah’s Witnesses preach against this. Don’t they? If so, wouldn’t you be undermining your own argument, as far as creation is concerned, by preaching that spirit beings could have young with human women?

    I know of no Scripture that teaches that angels became demons? But, even if one could show in Scripture that this is true, Peter is writing of human “messengers” that are kept in the prison called tartarus. The context is false teachers, given in 2Peter 2:1. I know many assume that, because the translator uses the word “angel” in verse-4 instead of the word “messenger” that Peter had spirit beings in mind, but this is not the case. Peter isn’t writing a bunch of disconnected phrases but is following a logical train of thought. The false teachers in 2Peter 2:1 would be rejected and punished just as those “messengers” or teachers in Noah’s day were rejected and punished. They are kept in ‘tartarus’—under ‘chains’ of darkness!
    So, what is ‘tartarus’? According to the information I have, it is supposed to be one of the deepest dungeons in Hades. Nevertheless, we both know that Hades is nothing more than death. Peter describes this place, saying its occupants are in ‘chains of darkness’. Isn’t death dark? Is there any light there? Job tells us that the ‘light’ of death is darkness (Job 10:22). Jude 1:6 speaks of the same thing as 2Peter 2:4. These people were the ‘messengers’ (of God) or the leaders of the righteous line. They didn’t keep their estate, but began to marry into the unrighteous line of Cain. They were men and women who sinned against God. What would happen today if all the righteous began turning away from God and going back to the world. God called us out of the world. Wouldn’t that be like Israel wanting to go back to Egypt? God judged that world with death and death is full of darkness. It is a prison that keeps those who have not repented, and they will be released on the Day of Judgment.

    Only Noah found grace in the eyes of God, and only 8 souls were saved out of that judgment. No one else was counted worthy to escape and live. All died. Peter wrote about humans who sinned—not angels. As I said above, the word translated ‘angel’ can also be translated **messenger**. It is used for John the Baptist, Paul’s thorn in his flesh, the men John sent to Jesus with a question about his Messianic office, and it is used by James to describe the Israelites that Rahab helped. The context of Peter’s writing concerns false teachers—humans, not spirit beings.

  18. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    In KJV translation of John 8:44 it says does “not abode” and abode is a past tense of “abide” which means “to remain” that is why Satan did not remain the truth since he was an angel before who is in truth.

    I have no problem with the wording of John 8:44. The problem I have is with your interpretation that a spirit being called Satan existed before Eden, and that this spirit being caused Adam to rebel against God. There is nothing in the Bible that shows there was an angelic rebellion in heaven prior to Adam’s rebellion. Scripture seems to show that Adam was the first that sinned and that through his sin death entered the world (Romans 5).

    As I have said you must read Genesis as to those who were angels before whom transformed into human being and marry women and have produced called Nefilim and these angels who transformed into human transformed again to being angels and went back to heavens to save their lives from deluge of water during Noah’s time. I am sorry I won’t post your comments anymore. You keep ignoring the fact that there were angels before who later became demons and come with Satan who were kept in tartarus to wait for the judgment to them.

    I understand that the sons of God in Genesis 6 chose the daughters of men and married them, and it was out of this union that the Nefilim was produced. My question is, where do you get the idea that the ‘sons of God’ were angels? There is Scripture concerning how species reproduce that would oppose this understanding of spirit beings uniting with human beings.

    Oh! I just read that you will not be posting my comments any longer. That is fine. The discussion is over. I am sorry I bothered you. You may delete the entire discussion if you wish.

    Have a great life. 🙂

  19. Posted by sandracestothesea on June 16, 2011 at 11:15 pm

    Ed Bromfield,

    You asked above, “Can you prove through Scripture that God made an angel who became Satan?”

    Yes, Ed, I think the answer to your question is evident in Job 1:6-8 —

    6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
    7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?”

    It is quite evident from these verses that the assembly of angels (“sons of the true God”) took place in heaven (“before Jehovah”), and a contrast is evident when one of these angels or “sons of God”, Satan himself, replies that he was “roving about in the earth and walking about in it.”

  20. Posted by sandracestothesea on June 16, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    Ed Bromfield,

    It can also be discerned from Job 38:4-7 that, when Jehovah created the earth, ALL the sons of God (the angels in heaven) ” joyfully cried out together, and ALL the sons of God began shouting in applause.” If ALL of them are included here, then this means that the angel Satan, a son of the true God, was then included among these too. So there was a time — the time when the earth was actually created, and before envy and the desire for worship took root in this angel’s heart — that Satan was included among the good angels of God, joyfully joining with them in applauding Jehovah God and His creation. When a wrong desire built up in his heart, eventually he took action to deceive Eve by telling her lies about God. (Genesis 3:1-5) He thus became a “Devil,” which means “Slanderer.” At the same time, he became “Satan,” which means “Opposer.”

    Job 38:4-7 states:

    4 Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?
    Tell [me], if you do know understanding.
     5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
    Or who stretched out upon it the measuring line?
     6 Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down,
    Or who laid its cornerstone,
     7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
    And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

  21. One thing Ed Bromfield it was said that in Genesis the serpent deceived Eve. Can this animal do its part of deceiving Eve by its own effort. Who is the one behind of the deceiving words? Is it not Satan who is represented by the original serpent as stated in Revelation 9:7 – 9.

    7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

    Satan is the original serpent because he used the serpent as his instrument to deceive the first couple. No animals created by God has a power to speak with people unless it was approved first by God like what happened with Balaam. And what would this serpent (if it is by only itself) achieve by deceiving the first couple and why would he do that. Is it the one that will mislead the people of the earth? Is not through Satan the Devil?

  22. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 25, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Greetings Sandra, and thank you for your interest in this discussion. 🙂

    Yes, Ed, I think the answer to your question is evident in Job 1:6-8 —

    It is not so evident to me. I see that the “sons of God” came together at a kind of meeting before God in heaven, and Satan is among them. However, the text says nothing about the kind of being Satan is. In other words, it says nothing that would point to his being an angelic being. All the text says is: “…the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.” I believe it is correctly interpreted that “angelic beings” are meant by the term “sons of God” but it doesn’t say that Satan was one of them. I merely says Satan entered the presence of God among them or in the midst of them. This is not a proof text that would show Satan is an angelic being. And if it cannot be used as a proof text, certainly your second Scripture cannot be used either, since Satan isn’t even mentioned in it.

  23. Posted by Ed Bromfield on June 25, 2011 at 10:29 am

    Greetings Sunrising, is this an afterthought or have you changed your mind about posting to me?

    Satan is the original serpent because he used the serpent as his instrument to deceive the first couple.

    First of all, the fact that Eve doesn’t seem surprised by a “talking serpent” tells me that “serpent” is allegorical for a real talking being. Both Jesus and the Baptist called the Jewish leadership serpents, so the meaning doesn’t have to be literal. Eve’s ‘matter of fact’ reply seems to indicate a real speaking being with whom she may have had conversations previously.

    Secondly, the ‘first couple’ was not deceived. Only Eve was deceived as the Scriptures conclude (1Timothy 2:14). Adam was with Eve when she partook of the forbidden fruit (Genesis 3:6), and he said nothing to hinder her eating the fruit. First, he watched her eat, then he ate as well. He was not deceived, but he ate the fruit. Why do you suppose he did that?

  24. Ed Bromfield,

    Yes, I agree it was Eve that was deceived. Yet the fact Adam eaten the forbidden fruit shows that his thinking was deceived also. Eve may had talked to him and told what the serpent explained as of eating the forbidden fruit but you said in Genesis 3:6 he was with Eve when Eve ate the fruit therefore he may had heard the lies of the serpent. The command is clear with Adam. If he did not hear the words of the Devil then eventually, he may asked Eve as to why she ate the fruit of course Eve would also tell what the serpent had lied to her. And so Adam was also deceived but not directly by the serpent but through Eve. Is it not possible? As I have said Satan is the cause of death. I have read it somewhere in the Bible. Since Jehovah did not create something in vain or did not create something for bad purpose then it is very logical to think that Satan was an angel before and the demons are angels who became demons as what happened in Genesis. The purpose of God is clear to mankind – to live on earth forever and to have authority on earth – in animals and plants etc. Why would God create someone that will destroy his plans? If you could remember what God had felt before the deluge of water, he found out that people on earth is doing wickedly and he felt sad with that. So why would God create Satan (as if he is already evil) if his purpose is always good? Why would he create someone or somebody that would make him hurt and sad? But this what demons did – they transformed into human and marry women. Some angels turned themselves into demons and followed Satan for Satan is the original transgressor. That is why in Revelation it says “Satan and his demons” indicating he governs the demons on this earth while there is a few time left for them.

  25. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 2, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Hi Sunrising. Concerning deception, according to the Scriptures Adam was not deceived, ever:

    (1 Timothy 2:14 KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Whatever occurred in Eden, Eve was deceived, but everything Adam did was deliberate. Nothing he did was by accident or due to deception. He clearly understood what was going on, and acted on his knowledge. Moreover, the Scriptures tell us he was there beside his wife while she spoke with the Serpent (Genesis 3:6). Yet, he never once sought to hinder her eating the fruit.

    Concerning God not creating a being specifically for the purpose of evil, I agree with you. God would never have done such a thing. Nevertheless, we do not agree that there was an angelic rebellion in heaven before Adam’s creation (or afterward). There is absolutely nothing in the Scriptures that would indicate such an occurrence. So, who then could Satan be? What seems to work as far as the Scriptures is concerned is that Satan is Adam. He was with Eve when she partook of the fruit and didn’t try to stop her. Moreover, the New Testament claims that death entered the world through Adam (Romans 5:12), not a spirit called Satan.

    It is man’s teaching that Satan is an angelic being. It certainly cannot be found in the Bible. Jesus called Peter a ‘satan’ or an enemy (the meaning of the word ‘satan’) in Matthew 16:23, so simply because someone is called a ‘satan’ does not indicate that the one called ‘satan’ must be a spirit being. The fact is, the Scriptures nowhere claim that the one we know as Satan is ever called a spirit being. The problem is Christian organizations have gotten used to the doctrine, and have taught for centuries that Satan is a rebellious angel, something the Bible never claims. It is difficult to get an organization to change its teaching. I have given up on that idea. I just write about what I believe it true, defend it as best I can and let people believe as they wish. I have blogged on this subject if you are interested, but reading them would be entirely up to you.

    Lord bless,

    Eddie

  26. Ed Bromfield,

    You said that Satan is not angelic being and you said that the serpent talked to Eve (as it is used by Satan) is not really serpent. Then you said it is allegorical then who was talking with Eve by that time. Is he has no own thinking? How was Eve was deceived by the serpent. If it is literal serpent then how come animals know of lies and about God and of the life and death? Satan as it was used to Peter does not say he is Satan but he was in the influence of Satan’s work by thinking that Jesus will not die. Jesus was not really referring to Peter but to Satan who is influencing Peter to say that. Another thing Satan is the Devil according to Revelation but there are people who are also called devil. As I have said Adam was deceived indirectly whether he had heard the voice of the serpent when talking to Eve or Eve had said what the serpent said to her to Adam and so both of them were deceived. One is directly the other one is indirectly. I hope you get the point.

  27. Posted by sandracestothesea on July 7, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Ed, the Bible CLEARLY states that Satan was a spirit being in heaven before he was cast out of heaven and hurled down to the earth at the time when Christ became Messianic King of God’s Kingdom. Please note Revelation 12:7-12 —

    7 And war broke out IN HEAVEN: Mi′cha‧el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the DRAGON AND ITS ANGELS battled 8 but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer IN HEAVEN. 9 So DOWN the great dragon was HURLED, the original serpent, the one called Devil and SATAN, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; HE WAS HURLED DOWN TO THE EARTH, AND HIS ANGELS WERE HURLED DOWN WITH HIM.
    10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
    “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”

    These scriptures show that Satan and his angels were in heaven, but were cast out of heaven and hurled down to the earth when Christ took up kingdom power. ONLY SPIRIT CREATURES RESIDE IN HEAVEN.

    If you choose to ignore what this scripture is saying, Ed, then this says a lot.

  28. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 12, 2011 at 12:19 am

    Sunrising, hi. Sorry for the delay. I had forgotten about our correspondence here.

    I am saying Satan is not an angelic being. The serpent that spoke with Eve is an used in the same manner as Jesus calling the scribes and Pharisees serpents. The one who is labeled a serpent in this chapter is Adam. He deceived Eve. He lied to her, and this is seen in her response to him. She mentions that if one touches the tree one would die. The Lord never said that. Adam taught Eve what the Lord taught him, except that Adam inserted his own story, which in the end made God out to be a liar in Eve’s eyes. The moment the tree was touched and death did not occur would have implied God lied, as far as Eve was concerned. So, even if one does not accept the fact that Adam is Satan (the Serpent and the Devil), one must conclude that he lied to his wife. Her understanding of God’s command is far from accurate.

    Concerning Animals knowing lies and God etc. I have no idea where you are going with this. You will have to elaborate and offer some Scriptural evidence for me to understand this proposal.

    Concerning the Lord’s remark to Peter, I take the stand that Peter was being called an enemy, not a Satanic being. His statement showed he was acting like an enemy of the Gospel. This was the Lord’s meaning as I understand it.

    Concerning your understanding of Adam being deceived, of course, you may believe whatever you wish, but your understanding is not Biblical. On the contrary, the Scriptures come right out and say that Adam was not deceived—only Eve was deceived in the garden. Moreover, Romans 5 shows us that sin and death entered our world through Adam. This could not be if Eve sinned first. It was Adam who lied to her and deceived her into rebelling against God. Effectively, he killed his wife.

    Have a good day, and Lord bless you and yours,

    Eddie

  29. Ed,

    As what repeated by Sandra, Satan is an angelic being and he was cast out of heaven. Satan is the original serpent. The serpent who deceived Eve was used by Satan as an instrument to talk with Eve. Because if there is no real person behind the serpent used to deceive Eve, how come the serpent knows about the opposite of God’s will – about life and death in truth. The Serpent (the Devil) really lied to Eve and said they will not die if they will eat the fruit but become like God which is actually the opposite of the truth and God’s will. So definitely, the serpent was in the influence of a real person with thinking. He is not Adam for he was cast out of heaven together with his angels. Adam turn back to dust for he was brought out of dust. I suppose you know that. Ezekiel 18:4 with interlinear proves it to be true.

  30. Posted by sandracestothesea on July 13, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    @ Ed

    Eve was deceived, but Adam deliberately and willfully sinned. God himself had spoken directly to Adam, so Adam had no excuse for his rebellious behavior. He willfully chose to disobey God. He exercised his free will to be independent of God’s rule in his life.

    You don’t really believe all that trash you are writing, do you, Ed? Are you trying to fill the minds of JWs with a lot of rubbish to create doubts regarding their beliefs? We have the Truth — where else is there to go?

    @ “sunrising”

    Be careful, “sunrising.” You have the truth; please stay awake and stand firm. Keep on grasping hold of Jehovah’s extended arm. We don’t have much longer to wait now. Things are happening real fast.

  31. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 14, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Sandra, hello again, sorry I missed your post last time when I submitted my previous reply.

    Ed, the Bible CLEARLY states that Satan was a spirit being in heaven before he was cast out of heaven and hurled down to the earth at the time when Christ became Messianic King of God’s Kingdom. Please note Revelation 12:7-12 —

    Actually, you are reading what you believe about Satan into the text. What the text says is that Satan was in the heavens and was cast out. Jesus clearly points out that he saw him fall from heaven as the 70 were sent on their mission to the cities in Samaria. The war, represented in heaven, also had real players on earth. Satan lost the battle, because Jesus prayed while the disciples overran his strongholds in the cities of Samaria. They were successful and Satan was defeated and cast out of heaven—during Jesus day. It was a war of authority. The word ‘angels’ in Revelation 12 can be translated ‘messengers’. If we do that we get a different picture for what actually occurred. If we compare what Jesus tells us in Luke 10 to what we find in Revelation 12, we can see that Jesus = Michael and Satan = the Dragon. Michael/Jesus’ messengers = the the 70 disciples, and the Dragon/Satan’s messengers = those who opposed Jesus. You are reading your belief that Satan is a spirit being into the text. The chapter begins with the Woman and 12 stars and the sun and the moon—all symbols of Israel and their authority—the child who was born (Jesus) was destined to rule all nations, which up to this time was Satan/Adam’s position.

    These scriptures show that Satan and his angels were in heaven, but were cast out of heaven and hurled down to the earth when Christ took up kingdom power. ONLY SPIRIT CREATURES RESIDE IN HEAVEN.
    If you choose to ignore what this scripture is saying, Ed, then this says a lot.

    Revelation is a book of symbols. As I related above, the stars, sun and mood were all symbols of Israel (cp. Genesis 37:9). The woman represents Israel who gave birth to the Messiah. All this appears in the heavens, but it actually took place on the earth. I am ignoring nothing. I simply don’t take the most symbolic book in the Bible literally.

    Lord bless you and yours,

    Eddie

  32. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 14, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Sunrising, greetings, once again. 🙂

    As what repeated by Sandra, Satan is an angelic being and he was cast out of heaven.

    As I said in my post to Sandra, the text does not say Satan is an angelic being. Folks who say this are reading their understanding into the text. Satan is never called a spirit being.

    The serpent who deceived Eve was used by Satan as an instrument to talk with Eve. Because if there is no real person behind the serpent used to deceive Eve, how come the serpent knows about the opposite of God’s will – about life and death in truth.

    All of what you require above was known by Adam. As I tried to explain in a previous posting, he is the one who deceived Eve. The text shows that he clearly lied to her about what God had told him before Eve was brought out of him and formed into a woman. The text puts Adam beside her while she eats the fruit. He is there. There is no need to bring in a mysterious spirit being. He is represented by the serpent and tries to get Eve to eat the fruit first.

    The Serpent (the Devil) really lied to Eve and said they will not die if they will eat the fruit but become like God which is actually the opposite of the truth and God’s will. So definitely, the serpent was in the influence of a real person with thinking. He is not Adam for he was cast out of heaven together with his angels. Adam turn back to dust for he was brought out of dust. I suppose you know that. Ezekiel 18:4 with interlinear proves it to be true.

    Clearly, this is in error. Jesus claimed he saw Satan fall from the heavens while the 70 were on their mission in the cities of Samaria. Satan’s presence before God in the book of Job shows he was not cast out of heaven at least until Job’s lifetime. Moreover, the prophet claims Satan appeared before the Lord to accuse Joshua the high priest and had to be rebuked (Zechariah 3:1-2), so Satan wasn’t cast out any time before the return of the exiles to the Promised Land. Revelation 12 implies that Satan was in the heavens still ruling at the time of the birth of Jesus, so he could not have been cast out at least until that time. The best understanding I can think of is to believe Jesus in Luke 10, saying that he saw Satan fall at the time when the 70 were on their mission.
    Concerning Ezekiel 18:4, in my opinion this is true of Adam/Satan, and Revelation 20:1-3 is the timeline. Satan/Adam is in the “bottomless pit” or “blackness of darkness” or dead—all mean the same thing.

    Have a good evening, my friend, and Lord bless,

    Eddie

  33. Posted by sandracestothesea on July 18, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Ed, Satan was in heaven (as explained in the book of Job). Also, Revelation 12 says that Satan was cast out of heaven. To be in heaven, one must have a heavenly body. God is spirit, and those who reside in heaven must be spirit, or have spirit bodies. 1 Cor. 15:40 states this:

    “And there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort.”

    Also, here’s a very important point — with regard to Rev. 12:5, the birth of the “male child” is not specifically referring to the Messiah, Jesus Christ, but rather to the birth of the Messianic Kingdom. This is clarified in verse 10. Please note —

    “And I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

    “Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and THE KINGDOM OF OUR GOD and the AUTHORITY of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!”

    Verse 10 explains that the birth of the male child refers to the birth of the kingdom of God and the authority of his Christ, not to Christ himself. When the kingdom is born, the first action that Christ takes (as Messianic King) is to oust Satan from heaven.

    Michael is the Lord Jesus Christ in his heavenly position. Now, in the Lord’s day, he no longer merely says to Satan: “May Jehovah rebuke you,” like he said to him in Jude 9. Since this is a time of judging, Jesus, as Michael, hurls the wicked Satan and his demonic angels down from heaven. (Revelation 1:10) It is most fitting that He should be the One to do this, as He is the newly installed King. Jesus is also the Seed, promised back in Eden, who will ultimately crush the head of the Serpent, thus putting him out of existence for all time. (Genesis 3:15) By ejecting Satan from heaven, Jesus has moved toward that final crushing.

    Now, with regard to Luke 10:18, 19, did this event (Satan falling from heaven) take place back then in Jesus day, as you say, Ed? Let’s see —

    The preaching by the 70 and Jesus’ follow-up work last a relatively short time. Soon the 35 teams of Kingdom preachers begin returning to Jesus. “Lord,” they say joyfully, “even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name.” Such a fine service report surely thrills Jesus, for he responds: “I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven. Look! I have given you the authority to trample underfoot serpents and scorpions.”

    Jesus knows that after the birth of God’s Kingdom at the time of the end, Satan and his demons are to be cast out of heaven. But now this casting out of unseen demons by mere humans serves as added assurance of that coming event. Therefore, Jesus speaks of the future fall of Satan from heaven as a certainty. Hence, it is in a symbolic sense that the 70 are given authority to trample serpents and scorpions. Yet, Jesus says: “Do not rejoice over this, that the spirits are made subject to you, but rejoice because your names have been inscribed in the heavens.”

    Jesus is overjoyed and publicly praises his Father for using these humble servants of his in such a powerful way. Turning to his disciples, he says: “Happy are the eyes that behold the things you are beholding. For I say to you, Many prophets and kings desired to see the things you are beholding but did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing but did not hear them.” Luke 10:1-24; Matthew 10:1-42; Revelation 12:7-12. [w’ 88 7/1 17]

    That by his words recorded at Luke 10:18 Christ was NOT referring to any past literal falling of Satan from heaven becomes apparent upon considering what is said elsewhere in the Bible. At Revelation 12:7-9 we are told about the hurling of Satan and his angels from heaven down to the earth. But this did not occur prior to or during the days of Jesus’ human life on earth. It should be noted that the entire book of REVELATION consists of PROPHETIC material. It IS NOT A COMPILATION OF PAST HISTORY. [You yourself, Ed, said above: “I simply don’t take the most symbolic book in the Bible literally.”] Well, Revelation 1:1 indicates this, in stating: “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things THAT MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE. And he sent forth his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John.” The apostle John received the revelation on the Isle of Patmos toward the end of the first century of our Common Era, completing the writing of it about 96 C.E. THAT WAS MANY YEARS AFTER JESUS CHRIST MADE THE STATEMENT RECORDED AT LUKE 10:18.

    A careful examination of Revelation chapter 12 indicates that the ouster of the Devil and his wicked angels from heaven was to follow the birth of God’s kingdom. (Rev. 12:5, 10) As has often been proved Scripturally in the columns of THE WATCHTOWER, the heavenly kingdom with Christ as King was established in 1914 C.E. Not long after his installation, Jesus Christ, or Michael, took action and “war broke out in heaven.” Michael and angels under him battled with Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven and down to the earth. [w’ 66 7/15 447]

    Ed, for clarification on how we determine that Christ began his rule as Messianic King in 1914, please follow this link:

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_10.htm

  34. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 18, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    Sandra, greetings, once again. 🙂

    Actually, I believe everything I’ve written. I pray about studying God’s word and when responding to people who post to me on my blog or in the “comments” of other’s blogs.

    I am not trying to fill anyone’s mind with anything. You posted to me, remember. Sunrising commented on my blog and invited me to read and comment on his blog-post here. As a rule I don’t go anywhere uninvited. From time to time I ask a blogger for clarity if I am reading a blog, but I don’t seek to critique his words uninvited. I will cease commenting here when I am either asked to leave by the administrator or simply when folks cease challenging what I have written. I am not here to spoil anyone’s day or to bring down anyone’s faith. I am simply discussing the word of God, and I try to do that in a gentlemanly fashion—without accusing anyone of dishonesty or of not being who they claim to be (i.e. child of God).

    Lord bless you and yours,

    Eddie

  35. Thanks Sandra for your clear and well explicit explanations. I hope this will help Ed to realize the truth as well as the other readers who might come to read this post.

  36. Ed, I think its better to end now our commenting here. I and Sandra explained the truth regarding the comments you are making. It’s up to you to choose now.I hope you will choose the right thing for there is only one road to life and to truth. Thanks for reading my posts. I hope you will have time to read the important links I have posted too in this blogsite.

  37. Let me post again here a site which is very informative in explaining truths. This blog site is very powerful in defending the truth and the belief of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. It has lots of different explanations pertaining to different subjects or matters. Please see the other categories of the site. Very convincing proofs indeed! Thanks and praise to Jehovah for these wonderful people who are really have insights in exposing truths!

    http://searchforbibletruthsscriptureindex.blogspot.com/

    http://defendingjehovahswitnesses.blogspot.com/

  38. Posted by Ed Bromfield on July 23, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Sunrising and Sandra,

    I have been asked to end the discussion, and so it is ended. I will permit all remaining arguments directed to me unanswered out of respect for this request.

    Thank you for your interest in my welfare, however, I am not here because I am doubtful of either knowing the truth or that I have been saved. My interest has been solely to discuss the word of God with folks willing to do so. I understand your hesitation at this point; I imagine most folks who challenge you are seeking to remove you from your accepted faith. I leave such things up to the Lord. I merely go wherever I am welcome to discuss God’s word. I try not to offend, but sometimes offenses come anyway. If such occurred here think of it as ignorance on my part, for I did not intend any offense.

    Lord bless,

    Eddie

  39. […] Answer: Yes there is only one hope and that hope is to have everlasting life either in heaven or on earth.See this link for additional explanation of this subject matter (https://fromthesunrising.wordpress.com/2011/05/30/will-all-the-righteous-people-go-to-heaven/) […]

  40. Did God know Adam and Eve will sin? See this link for the answer.

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/20110101a/article_01.htm

  41. Is Satan a myth or a sinister in reality? See for this article from the watchtower.org that explains about this spirit person?

    http://www.watchtower.org/e/20021015/article_02.htm

  42. WHAT ABOUT THE NAME OF GOD? SOME SAY IT IS WRONG TO CALL GOD AS JEHOVAH FOR NO ONE IS CERTAIN IN ITS PRONUNCIATION.

    Isaiah’s name might also pronounce as Yeshayahu, Jacob as Yakov, Jeremiah as Yeremiyahu, Joseph as Yeshua or Yehoshua. All of these names are NOW pronounce differently in the Bible according to our own language. Jesus is pronounce as Hessoos in Spanish, Gesu in Italian and is pronounce as Djayzoo, Jesus in German but pronounce it as Yaysoos, Iesous in Greek and is pronounce as Yesus. The pronounciation doesn’t matter what is important is we address the names in the Bible and believes that they have existed. We may call Jesus’ name in different forms but still it is the same name for the Son of God whom God sent to earth for the salvation of mankind. Pronunciation of the names in the Bible doesn’t decrease the importance of the name. The same with the name Jehovah, the name of Almighty God. We may call Jehovah with respect according to our own language spoken. Joel 2:31, 32 is important text in the coming Armageddon and is repeated in Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21, 22.

    If we can address Jesus in many different forms of his name according to one’s own language as well as all the other names in the Bible without having a problem on it, then surely we would also accept the name of God in the Bible as Jehovah without having hesitation that it is the name of God.

    for other short topics about religion please visit my fb account at http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001759236778

  43. JOHN 5:25 “Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

    Katibayan ba ito na ang mga masasama ay babangon at hahatulan? Bago ito alamin nating ang sinasabi ng 1 Corinto 15:35-44. Binabanggit doon na may dalawang uri ng katawan sa pagkabuhay-muli – ang katawang panglangit at katawang panglupa – espirituwal na maninirahan sa langit (144K) at dugo at laman (ibang tupa) na maninirahan sa bagong sanlibutan (new earth – Psalms 104:5; Proverbs 2:21;22). Kung totoong may kaluluwa na umiiral sa katawan ng tao na hindi namamatay ibig bang sabihin na sa pagkabuhay muli sa paghatol (gaya ng paniniwala ng marami) ay bubuhayin sila sa katawang pisikal at ilalagay muli ang kaluluwa sa kanilang katawan at papatayin muli? Hindi magiging makatuwiran ang gaanong paraan ng Diyos kung ganun nga. Binabanggit na sa pagkabuhay muli ay may katawang espirituwal (espiritung katawan) na bubuhayin – nasaan ang kaluluwa nila kung totoong may umiiral ng kaluluwa sa loob ng katawan ng isang tao na hindi namamatay? Kaya makatuwiran lamang na isipin na ang John 5:28-29 ay tumutukoy sa mga bubuhaying muli na hindi pa napaabutan ng katotohanan at katuwiran at na bibigyan sila ng pagkakataong matuto sa DAAN ng Diyos anupat may iba sa kanila na hindi makasusunod kung kaya sila ay hahatulan samantalang ang iba na matuwid na bubuhayin ay patuloy na magiging matuwid kung kaya sila ay tatanggap ng buhay na walang hanggan.

    Pansinin din ang sinasabi ng Ezekiel sa 18:4, 20 na kung saan ang orihinal na salita para sa kaluluwa (NEPHESH) ay namamatay. Tingnan sa link na ito http://interlinearbible.org/ezekiel/18-4.htm at pansinin na ang translatiion sa Ezekiel 18:4 para sa salitang “hanephesh” ay isinaling person pero sa KJV ito ay “soul”. Tingnan ang link na ito. http://interlinearbible.org/ezekiel/18-20.htm

    May higit pang patotoo na nagmula kay Jesus na ang kaluluwa (bilang buhay ng tao) ay napupuksa at inihiwalay niya ang katawan ng tao na nagpapahiwatig na ang buhay ng isang tao na nasa katawan ng isang tao ay talagang puwedeng pumanaw o mapuksa. Pansinin ang sinabi niya sa Mateo 10:28 at tingnan ang link na ito – http://interlinearbible.org/matthew/10-28.htm

    Bilang huling teksto na ang kaluluwa ay pwedeng mamatay pansinin din ang sinabi ni Jesus ng tanungin niya ang mga tao tungkol sa pagpapagaling sa araw ng Sabath sa Mark 3:4 kung saan tinukoy niya na ang kaluluwa ay maaaring patayin. Pakisuyong tingnan ang orihinal na wika para sa salitang kaluluwa (psykhe) na isinaling buhay (life) ng interlinear sa link na ito. Ang kahulugan ng salitang “psykhe” ay kaluluwa o buhay na makikita sa maraming orihinal na bersikulo sa Griyegong Kasulatan. http://interlinearbible.org/matthew/10-28.htm

    Ang salitang psykhe ay makikita rin sa Mark 3:4 http://biblos.com/mark/3-4.htm at Matthew 10:28 gaya ng nabanggit sa una. http://biblos.com/matthew/10-28.htm

    At pansinin ang mga pangungusap sa John 5:25 kung saan ang mga patay (sa espirituwal) ay sinasabi ni Jesus na nakarinig ng kaniyang salita at sinabi niya na ang tulad gayong tao na dating patay sa espirituwal na nakinig ay mabubuhay. Kaya ang lahat ng tumangging makinig sa kaniyang salita at sa katotohanan ay nawawalan ng pag-asa sa pagkabuhay-muli gaya ng pagkakasabi ni Jesus na ang lahat ng nagbigay pansin o nagtuon pansin ay mabubuhay (bubuhaying muli man o makaliligtas sa Armagedon) ng walang hanggan.

    http://concordances.org/greek/psuche_n_5590.htm

    Please have a translation of my comments if you don’t understand my written language. Thanks for reading… The righteousness of Jehovah God is the one which judges!

  44. PLEASE SEE THIS ARTICLE OF MINE CONCERNING “SOUL AND HELL”.

    https://fromthesunrising.wordpress.com/2010/10/28/the-truth-about-soul-and-hell/

  45. ***Erratum: “Again, John 3:13 states that no one went to heaven except to the one who came from heaven none other than Jesus.”

  46. ***Erratum: Joel 2:30 – 32 and Acts 2:19 – 21. This is until the time of the great day of Jehovah God that whoever calls his name will be saved. But faith requires action – James 2:20, 26.

  47. This is my facebook account. Please check my posts there. — http://www.facebook.com/mark.villanueva.98892

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